In this April 24, 2018 photo, a visitor looks at an installation in the Hall of the Cosmos at Hong Kong Space Museum during a press preview. (PARKER ZHENG / CHINA DAILY)

Hong Kong Space Museum curator Lawrence Lee is on the show this week to talk about the prospect of Hong Kong people playing a bigger role in the country's space mission in future.

Lee says Hong Kong has some 30,000 in relevant industries that can contribute to these future programs and missions, as payload specialist. Also, he says Hong Kong can have a hand in the commercialization of technology used in space and can offer a financial platform for relevant companies to raise fund in the equity market.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Lawrence Lee.

Chan: Welcome to Straight Talk with Eugene Chan. Lawrence Lee Wai Kwan, the curator of our Space Museum in Tsim Sha Tsui, is with us this evening to talk about sending Hong Kong people into space. Lee has been on the management team of the Hong Kong Space Museum for over 12 years, and has been the curator since 2020, overseeing its largest renovation since its inception in 1980. What an exciting time to be in the space industry! Welcome, Lawrence!

Lee: Hi, Eugene. Yes. 

Chan: So, space is a very faraway place from Hong Kong, and is also very far away from the minds of many Hong Kong people. 

Lee: Yes. 

Chan: Until recently, when our Deputy Financial Secretary Michael Wong, and Secretary for Innovation Technology and Industry, Professor Sun Dong announced directly from Beijing that Hong Kong and Macao residents are possible recruits for the mainland space program.

Lee: Yes. 

Chan: And of course, this project has been endorsed and supported by our Chief Executive, John Lee. What they're recruiting is what they call payload specialist. 

Lee: Yes.

Chan: Since you are the expert, maybe we can tell the viewers, what exactly a payload specialist is.

Lee: Okay. A payload specialist is always accompanying a space mission. They are not actually the one who controls the spacecraft. They may carry out experiments to do science research on spacecraft on those on a space mission. So, actually, we have a lot to do in space besides controlling the spacecraft. There are many research projects we are doing in space. So, that's why we need to carry out different experiments on different subjects, disciplines, to know more about the space environment, because, honestly, we have to ... sooner or later, our earthlings will leave the earth, and to maybe go to other planets, or celestial bodies. And we must have a very good understanding of the space ... of the effect of space environment on us.

Chan: Right, Lawrence? I'm sure there will be very fierce competition. What you're saying is, payload specialists are the ones going to research for us. So, what are the basic criteria that can satisfy if I want to be a payload specialist? What other criteria do we need in this program?

Lee: At this present moment, the criteria said is that they have at least a PhD degree and three years relevant experience. And so... but of course, the degree has to be in a relevant discipline. And, actually, in space science, it involves many different kinds of disciplines. We have physics, chemistry, material science, engineering, we have mechanical engineering, we have electronic engineering, or even computer engineering, system engineering.

Chan: But also this one. I mean, one criteria that you mentioned is that normally we don't get it in the CV or you make it in a CV that they have to be Chinese national. They have to be a Hong Kong permanent resident. They have to be a patriot or one patriot supporting “One Country, Two Systems”, and also a certain height as well. Do we expect that as part of the criteria? Do you think it's a fair assessment?

Lee: I think it's a fair assessment. Yes. Because you're contributing to the Chinese space program. So, I guess these are the basic requirements. Yes, I think it's a fair assessment.

Chan: Right. So, do you think Hong Kong has the expertise in this area, so that we can join the national team? Now it's been open to Hong Kong and Macao residents? But do we have those specialists?

Lee: At present, there are around 30,000 people doing science research in Hong Kong and doing many different disciplines. We don't know whether … you know the final selection rests with the Chinese authorities, with our country. But I think when they look at the CVs and different experiences of the applicants, I think, well, maybe they would see the possibility of the scientists, of the applicants to be a payload specialist.

Chan: Right. When you said we have like 30,000 potential...I mean, they're doing science research in Hong Kong now … science researchers. Do you think we have a good chance?

Lee: I won't speculate on that. I know the competition is really fierce.

Chan: Exactly.

Lee: But I think it's actually... from a personal point of view, it’s a longtime initiative. Yes, because we have to, even if it's not successful this time, we'll keep on grooming new talents in this field.

Chan: So, why do you think the mainland has opened up this opportunity for both Hong Kong and Macao residents?

Lee: I think it's a recognition for Hong Kong, I guess it's a recognition of the space science research, they have been doing, especially the contribution of Hong Kong scientists in the China and lunar missions and the Mars Tianwen missions. I think they know that science has a very strong field. Strong presence in scientific research. I guess I think it's a recognition, and especially, for instance, you know, we have Polytechnic University who are doing the camera pointing system for the Chang'e system, Chang'e space mission. And we also developed a mass surveillance landing camera ... landing surveillance camera for the Mars mission. And two years ago, the HKU also developed a lobster eye x-ray imaging satellite. So, there's, I guess we have a proven track record in science research. 

Chan: It's very encouraging to hear about those achievements by the Hong Kong scientists. So that now we are being recognized that we are a good potential at least for the payload specialist. So, we have a good track record. So, let's move on further. I mean, to a wider field like the development of education for astronomy in Hong Kong. We have five universities in Hong Kong, which are in the top 100. Does any one of them offer majors in astronomy or aeronautics? And, if so, I mean, do they have sufficient specialist courses to make our scientists even more equipped for these fields? 

Lee: Yes. So, as far as I know, there are universities in Hong Kong offering degrees in aeronautics or aerospace engineering, let's say three, they're offering. And at least two are offering postgraduate master degrees in space science. Yes. So, for undergraduates, I know that most of the undergraduate students who want to study astronomy will join a physics faculty, the department of physics, they'll be majoring in physics. And because actually, we have many scholars in Hong Kong universities who are actually astronomers. So, they can... when they organize some courses and for the students to enroll and to pick up knowledge in astronomy. 

Chan: Say Lawrence, you know, traditionally, Hong Kong has always been having more emphasis onto other jobs like, I mean, not really on technology or scientists, but mainly on say… if you go to university, you may want to be a medical doctor, you want to be a lawyer, you could be a banker, it’s traditionally not as prestigious. But with this opportunity opening up, and also Hong Kong being asked to be the hub for innovation technology here. Do you think everything will change from now on?

Lee: I guess it is definitely a stimulus. Because if we are... for example, if I'm studying mechanical engineering in university then actually the topic I'm studying ... I can ... you know the whole arena of topics or new research theme maybe opened up in my field. Because, you know, in a space environment, it's very interesting, because space environments are hard to replicate on earth. Why? Because it's vacuum, the temperature difference, and the intense radiation in a space environment, materials behave in a microgravity environment. So, materials behave so differently in space. That's why we need a space station to do science research in space, because the environment is so different.

Chan: Right.

Lee: You can see a few days ago, the astronaut Liuyang provided a Tiangong lesson and did a number of demonstrations on the physics of materials. They are very interesting. And so, this is a definite stimulus for people doing science research in Hong Kong to seek new possibilities.

So, basically, it's opening up a whole new possibility. 

Chan: Yes.

Lee: In the past, you only study astronomy or physics on the textbook, but now the chance has come … you know the universe is our laboratory. So, this definitely is a very positive thing. 

Chan:  And actually, when you mentioned earlier one day, I mean, human beings may have to look at inhabiting other planets. So, these are preliminary studies we must do to understand.

Lee: Because the universe is so large, and the celestial bodies are so far away, right? The moon, even if the Apollo mission at time you take three days to the Moon and Mars, you go to Mars, we colonize Mars one day, say for example, according to present technology, it takes nine months… 

Chan: Nine months? 

Lee: …to go to Mars. Quickest. So, a roundtrip journey to Mars is 18 months, more than a year.

Chan: Just now you mentioned about the university, we have some undergraduate, we have some, maybe some postgraduate courses.

Lee: Yes, master’s degree. 

Chan: But how about in general levels. I mean, not everybody may have the opportunity to study physics or are good enough to study physics like yourself in the university, how about other levels of education? How about in primary and secondary school? Do we have all that being taught to our students?

Lee: Actually in junior level and in primary school, we have astronomical knowledge being imparted to the students about the seasons, they learn about some basic space science knowledge, yes. And in secondary school, in the physics curriculum, they have these astronomy and space science electives, and to learn about some of the capitalist laws, they mean the orbital motion, the laws governing orbital motions, classification of stars, and we have to know the space weather, the near-Earth environment.

Chan: Right Lawrence, we have to take a break now.

Lee: Ok. No problem.

Chan: Viewers please stay with us. We will be right back.

Chan: Welcome back! With us this evening is Lawrence Lee, and we have been talking about the opportunity for Hong Kong people to be sent into space, as part of our nation’s manned spacecraft program. So, Lawrence, in the first half you have told us that Hong Kong does have the ability, with the opportunity for people to be payload specialists, and be able to be … because of our track record, I think we are being honored to be able to be selected. And if we are not successful this time, it’s at least a good start.

Lee: Yes.

Chan: You have also talked about education. I mean it covers from university, as well as primary and secondary education, that our students are being exposed. But how about in terms of the community? Do we have any enthusiastic societies around? I mean because community engagement is very important.

Lee: Well, yes. Actually the ecology of astronomy in Hong Kong is very interesting actually. We have… actually before the inception of Space Museum, actually we had a group of astronomy enthusiasts, amateur astronomers in Hong Kong. Even in the 1950s, they were already there. And now we have six local astronomical societies.

Chan: Wow!

Lee: Yes, six. And actually, in universities and many secondary schools, they all have their own astronomy clubs. And of course we have the Space Museum here, we have to promote astronomy for the general public. So, whenever there is a big celestial event, say for instance, I’d like to do a commercial here for the coming lunar eclipse on Nov 8, then we will do broadcasts, maybe if condition permits, we do what call sidewalk astronomy. Then we will set up some telescopes on the outdoors, and let passersby to take a gaze, take a look through the telescope. 

Chan: Right. Lawrence, as you know, Hong Kong is a very vibrant city.

Lee: Yes.

Chan: We got a lot of neon lights at night time, and what we call light pollution.

Lee: Yes.

Chan: Isn’t that going to make star-gazing a bit difficult in Hong Kong?

Lee: Honestly it is becoming increasingly difficult because the light pollution in Hong Kong is really very serious. So, we have only quite a… we call the sweet spot and hub for astronomical observation in Hong Kong is really limited now. So, actually…

Chan: For example, if you go to the southern side of Hong Kong, say around the beaches, is that a good place for the viewers to know?

Lee: Actually it really depends on what kind of phenomenon you are looking at.

Chan: Right.

Lee: If we are looking at, say, a lunar eclipse, eclipse of the moon, then the light pollution is not a big issue because we can see the moon all the… as long as your view, your view angle, the field of view is not blocked by buildings, something like that, then you can see the moon, it’s okay. But for some astronomy phenomenon, say meteor showers, then you need a very dark environment, then we have to be very careful. 

Chan: Right. 

Lee: For instance, the Leonids in November, the Geminids in December. They all require very dark conditions to see the meteors. 

Chan: Right. Are there any alternative we can do?

Lee: There is one field of astronomy that does not rely on weather that is called radio astronomy. Yes, because you use the radio dishes, large radio antennas to capture radio signals from different kinds of celestial bodies. And I actually know, we have some universities which said they have already set up some radio dishes in this field to do radio astronomy. That is a possible… one field of astronomy that not so reliant on weather.

Chan: Right. Lawrence, as a curator of Space Museum, do you see yourself having a much better opportunity now to promote what you have always been…what I have been asked to do is promote education in Hong Kong, especially with this new initiative of recruiting payload specialists from Hong Kong. Do you expect more visitors to visit the Space Museum?

Lee: Actually I am… we are trying to stimulate interests, taking this opportunity to promote interest of astronomy and space science for general public through different lectures or talks, or film shows. Actually, I know the requirements of the payload specialists are very high – it is PhD and 3 years’ previous experience. But we are trying to… as I have said, it is a long time initiative, and we have to make people aware that space science, space technology is so closely related to our daily lives. Actually there are many spin-offs.

Chan: Right. When I was preparing the materials to meet you today, I realized that usually in the US and Russia, they call them astronauts.

Lee: Yes, yes.

Chan: But from China, they call them taikonaut.

Lee: Yes.

Chan: So, how is all this technology, after they had been to the space and bring back their experience, how is it going to be relevant to our daily lives?

Lee: Actually, many things that we are using are spin-offs of space technology. Say for instance, your mobile phones, communication satellites, remote sensing… when you go to the observatory to see the latest weather map, the satellite pictures, they are weather satellites, they are all space technology. The digital camera we use, the CCD charge-coupled device, the imaging sensor, the CMOS, they are all space technology. Or even if the garment we are wearing, or the running shoes, their material, actually they are all spin-offs of space technology. 

Chan: Really?

Lee: It's really, just so many…I have said the space is very, very harsh, the high temperature difference, vacuum, microgravity. Materials behave so differently. So, actually all these space technology are developed for survival of human in space. And when they find it very useful and can be applied in the earth environment, and they started commercialization and mass production, and that is why we are using them now.

Chan: One side-track question: you being in the field much longer than most of us, when do you envisage the possibility of actually living in space? How many more years do you think?

Lee: Living in space… for how long? It really depends on if you are really thinking of human colonization…

Chan: Yes.

Lee: …then I think we are still a long way to go.

Chan: Right.

Lee: So, many different problems to solve, for instance, say Moon, Moon is the closest, 338,000 kilometers from us. But then the Moon’s environment is very harsh, there is no atmosphere, and the temperature difference is very big. And then you go to Mars, Mars, the weather is comparatively more friendlier, but it is too far away, the closest is still 56 million kilometers away from us. And a trip to Mars takes 9 months. And we have to be self-reliant on Mars, you cannot always depend on transport of materials, of supplies, to the red planet. So you need to have development of technologies, so you will sustain living on the planet for a long period of time. 

Chan: Right. So, it will be quite some time but we have to start working on this?

Lee: Yes.

Chan: Since you said that Hong Kong already has some basis of all these scientists and also now with the opportunity, what other opportunity would exist for our youngsters? We are always looking at new possibilities for the new generation.

Lee: Yes.

Chan: Do you see this as business opportunities?

Lee: Oh yes. Now you have a window, you have a chance, that Hong Kong people may become payroll specialists for Chinese space missions, then when a youngster, a youth, in say senior primary or secondary school, or even in the university, they will think “wow, maybe this will be worth…”, of course it depends on their interest, but of course, this may be a career in space industry that is worth pursuing.

Chan: Right. As you said, the industry can involve garments, it can involve something like telephone, mobile phones, and etc.

Lee: Something like that career planning, long-term career planning. I see another possibility now. The subject they are studying can contribute to the man’s exploration of space, another vista of possibility.

So, definitely a big scope for expansion.

Chan: Yes, I see that.

Lee: So, now this time, we have the possibility of a payload specialist, hopefully, Hong Kong has a chance, and Macao. 

Chan: And how about actually being the actual space pilots or flight engineers?

Lee: Oh, space pilot.

Chan: Do we have a chance? I am asking more now. 

Lee: Space pilot… currently all the… as far as I know, all the Chinese astronauts here, I mean Yang Liwei and they are all space pilots. They all need to have experience, flight hours, in flying combat planes, combat planes, fighter aircrafts, something like that. And they are to be recruited from the People's Liberation Army. And in terms of physical, I guess the requirement is more much higher. Say for instance, if you have a decayed tooth, you cannot go to space. You are ousted immediately, okay? Because if you have an ill-fitted dental fillings, because when the spacecraft, the rocket is being launched, it is subject to very vigorous vibrations and G-Force, and they are afraid that your fillings will be broken out, it becomes lose and cause pain. And you can’t even have scars on your skin, because they are afraid you will bleed.

Chan: I see.

Lee: Don't know when you're in a so hostile environment, they don’t know if you may have bleeding on your skin. So, I guess at the present moment, the requirement is quite stringent.

Chan: Right. Also, I mean I was also doing some reading as well, when I asked you, I understand that there is an emerging private sector in space industry, that the global space economy is estimated to be worth about $350 billion, and could surge to $1 trillion by 2040. Furthermore, with all these space technology industry coming on the stock market, do you think Hong Kong has a role to play since we are one of the international financial centers?

Lee: Definitely, yes. Besides the local universities that are doing space science research, developing new gadgets, new equipment for the Chinese space mission, and also we know that there are some companies listed in the Hong Kong stock market, they are starting to pursue, say, launching satellites for Hong Kong. And so that is definitely another thriving business here.

Chan: Right. Many thanks to Lawrence for enlightening us on this previously unexplored frontier of space. We hope that the seeds planted will enable Hong Kong to contribute further to what is our nation’s achievements. Have a pleasant evening and goodnight!