Hong Kong Golf Club Captain Andy Kwok attends the Straight Talk show on TVB, June 20, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)
Hong Kong Golf Club Captain Andy Kwok is on the show this week.
Kwok shares with us what golf is all about and debunks the myth that golf is only for the rich. He also outlines how golf has and can continue to contribute to Hong Kong’s economic success.
Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Andy Kwok.
Chan: Good evening! Thank you for joining us on Straight Talk. Our guest is Andy Kwok, the captain of the Hong Kong Golf Club. Kwok is also a board member of the Hong Kong Golf Association, and is actively involved with several youth-related associations, including being chairman of the Hong Kong Award for Young People, and the committee member of the Youth Development Commission, as a captain of the Hong Kong golf club, Andy is going to tell us if the game of golf is only for the rich in our community. Before we proceed, I should declare my membership with the Hong Kong Golf Club. However, as host, I will remain objective throughout our discussion of this topic. Welcome, Andy.
Kwok: Thank you, Eugene.
Chan: So, captain, like many people have said to me before you want to become a member of a golf club, you could have quite a long wait, I had to wait for way over 25 years, I've always wanted to know, why is it taking so long?
Kwok: Well, I think the most important issues is demand is very high. And because of the limited facilities that we have in Hong Kong, hence, the long waiting lists for members, people want to get a membership at any of the golf clubs in Hong Kong.
Chan: So, I understand the club has a few courses, why can we take more members so the wait will be a lot shorter. I mean, 20 odd years is a very long time.
Kwok: It is. Unfortunately, we have three courses at our Fanling site. And capacity is limited, as you know. And right now we have around 3,000 membership, plus their spouses and children. So, roughly around 8,000 golfers in our membership. And please bear in mind, we actually have opened up over 40 percent of our availability tee times to the general public. So, we don't want to deprive public from gaining access into the club and playing golf. So, because of that, and so unfortunately, we cannot receive too many members all at once. And hence the long waiting time.
Chan: Captain, I must confess the reason why I still waited over the 20 odd years. Because to most golfers is still the most economical course. And also it has the one has the most history. There are other courses in Hong Kong, but it costs a lot more. But there's also another issue that I'm sure many viewers who are golfers was going to ask you, why is it taking … why is it so difficult to book a tee time because tee time meaning be able to play off the golf. People have to wait a week before to book a course. And they have to be in-person like 6:45 in the morning, or they get into the app which through the app, all the spaces is gone within seconds. So, is there anything you can do about that?
Kwok: Well, as I said, demand is extremely high, especially since COVID-19. I think golf has become even more popular than before. It is a non-contact sport. And people think that you know, it's good to go outside to go outdoor for sports. So, demand is extremely high. And unfortunately, we only have six and a half private golf courses in Hong Kong plus the three public courses at Kau Sai Chau. So, with that high demand, tee time is hard to get and is very highly sought after. My guess we're trying to fine tune the system. But I think you know the demand. Well, I think we just have … we just need more facilities, if you ask me in order to resolve this for the long run.
Chan: Right, Andy. There's also people who believe people who play at the Hong Kong Golf Club are extremely rich, because they're saying that they have to pay over HK$10 million to get in as a member. Is that true?
Kwok: No, that's a total misconception I think that we have in the public. In fact, I think we're actually one of the most … one of the cheapest private golf clubs in Hong Kong, if not around the region.
Individual membership will cost around under HK$400,000 to join. But because of the waiting time I think that's something that we'll have to endure, it’s only the very few nominee membership which holds by the large conglomerates and multinational companies in Hong Kong. That's the price that you're talking about over like you know, HK$10 million and the difference is they can actually transfer the nominee players to any of their staff. So, this is actually one of the fringe benefits that they offer to their senior executives as part of the compensation package to attract them… to attract these type of talents to come to Hong Kong.
Chan: Right, but the individual membership cannot be transferred.
Kwok: Unfortunately, individual membership cannot be transferred.
Chan: I know some other clubs, which has nominee memberships, they do have this privilege for the members to be able to transfer off on the commercial market, isn't it?
Kwok: Yes, that's right. Different clubs have different arrangement in terms of their membership, and for the Hong Kong Golf Club, all are individual membership, which represent over 90 percent of our total members, all individual, which paid who paid just like you around HK$300,000 to HK$400,000 to join. And it is for life, but unfortunately, it's not transferable.
Chan: Right. So, how big is the golfing community in Hong Kong? I mean, you said that we have like, six and a half courses plus three in the public arena. So, there's like 10 golf courses? So, sounds like I mean, there's quite a number of golf courses. So, how big is the population?
Kwok:Well, I think the latest population for active golfers is around 100,000 in Hong Kong. If you compare us with, say, like Singapore, I think which has around 80,000 active golfers, but they have double the number of golf courses compared to us. So that hence also the high demand and compared to supply, and hence the long wait in membership as well as you know, the hard to get tee times.
Chan: So, you just said that there are quite a number of golfers in Hong Kong, and but people still feel that it’s still a very small proportion of the community, so-called the privilege, or, as the title says, for the rich, do you agree?
Kwok: Well again, this is a total misconception. In fact, I think golf around the world is actually one of the top 10 most popular sports. And I think golf in Hong Kong is growing and is now I think also one of the more popular sports in Hong Kong. And not just playing in Hong Kong, I think golf is a sports that people travel around the world to play. So, we receive a lot of tourists and a lot of businessmen when they're in Hong Kong, coming to our course to play. And we see a lot of our Hong Kong people traveling around the world to play golf as well. So, no, it's ever increasing in terms of popularity.
Chan: But in terms of how about the rest of Asia, or even the US or the UK? I mean, how popular is golf?
Kwok: Very popular. I think recently, you see that even in the desert climate countries such as in the UAE and Dubai, or in Saudi Arabia, they are investing multibillion dollars in irrigation in building new golf courses, because they see that this is a sports, a recreation that will attract tourists, attract people coming into the country. So, I think it's going to be ever growing. And it's going to be a huge industry going forward.
Chan: Right. So, just now you mentioned that if somebody wants to become a member, if they've waited for like 20 or 30 years they still have to pay, although I mean under HK$400,000 isn't that such a big amount for joining a private club, but it’s still an amount. So why does it cost so much to run the golf course? Can it be cheaper, so even more accessible for people who have lined up there for 20 odd years?
Kwok: Well, I think it will definitely be a little bit cheaper if we have more facilities available in Hong Kong. But also bear in mind to run the golf course is actually a very expensive exercise. We have a dedicated team of greenkeepers, agronomist that help to take care of the course, and that is very highly skilled people. Because we have very different… we have different types of grass around the course, you know, from greens to fairways to the roughs. Each course is slightly different. And we have tens of thousands of trees that require special care every day. So, hence, the very large number of manpower that's needed to maintain such a beautiful and well-renowned golf course that we have in Hong Kong.
Chan: Someone said that the golf course is a symbol of Hong Kong society’s class divide. I know, they're not particularly saying that of one particular golf club, but what is your response to that?
Kwok: Well, another misconception I’d say, actually, on the contrary, I think golf actually helped to create a harmonious society. Well, I think this is one of the very few sports that is inclusive that all people from all ages, skills, and gender can play together all on the same tee. So, on that I think I think we need more… we need to promote golf for a more harmonious society in Hong Kong.
Chan: Andy, when we first introduced you, you’re also a member of the Golf Association.
Kwok: That’s right. Yes.
Chan: So, I'm sure you're in a position to tell the viewers what is the standard of golf now in Hong Kong as compared to Asia or even the world.
Kwok: I think, through years of hard work and dedication from like, funding, for example, over 70 percent of the Hong Kong Golf Association's training, and competitions were played on our ground. And because of the availability of play for the junior players, I think we're seeing great results in recent years. Such as, for example, earlier this year, we see a Hong Kong-bred Taichi Kho, winning a first ever Asian Tour event, the world city championship in Hong Kong, And obviously, before that, we have Tiffany Chan, the Olympian, very first Hong Kong female golfer now playing in the LPGA circuit in the United States. And then also, we have a lot of great juniors achieving great results, such as Ariana Lau, who just won the Asia Pacific golf Confederation Junior Championship. So, we're actually seeing, you know, the fruits are there and now it's time to harvest. So, I think Hong Kong providing you know, we have enough facilities, our juniors will flourish in the international golfing scene.
Chan: Right Andy, let's take a break now and viewers, stay with us. We'll be right back.
Straight Talk presenter Eugene Chan (left) interviews Hong Kong Golf Club Captain Andy Kwok on TVB, June 20, 2023. (PROVIDED TO CHINA DAILY)
Chan: Thank you for staying with us. We have been talking with Andy Kwok about golf in Hong Kong, who plays golf, and where do they play, the development of golf in Hong Kong, and whether golf is only for the rich. So, captain, you have told us some background of the golf scene in Hong Kong, you just told us that we got some very good juniors. But how about our courses? I mean people who have travelled overseas, who heard of the St Andrews Links in Scotland.
Kwok: Right.
Chan: So, how does Hong Kong compare to that? I am sure we are nowhere close with the history, but do we have anything that is similar in Hong Kong?
Kwok: Well, first of all, I think, as a Hong Konger, I think we should be very proud that Hong Kong has one of the oldest golf courses in Asia, our old course at Fanling. It is dated back to 1911, so over 110 years old. It is actually one of the very first golf courses outside Scotland. Obviously, the origin of golf is from Scotland, but outside that, I mean even the oldest golf course, say in America, is around 1880s. So, pretty similar in terms of time to our old course. So, we should be very proud.
Chan: Right. On the Hong Kong golf club website, you have quoted Peter Thompson, the 5-time open championship winner, saying Hong Kong Golf Club is “incredibly special place in the world of golf, not only historically important, its course is notably the old course, architectural gems, that had been laid over pristine in ancient terrain. And also its role as a focal point for Hong Kong golf cannot be understated”. So, basically he is saying how important is the old course, so why old course is so important?
Kwok: When it was first built, in the old days, we didn't have large equipment to build golf courses, unlike in the recent, unlike today. So, the course was built along the terrain and landscape that was already there. So, we have all the ancient graves and trees surrounding the golf course. So this is very rare, even if you go to anywhere else in the modern days, golf courses like in America or in Thailand, for example. So, to be playing alongside a 400-year-old grave, I mean this is something of an experience for all golfers.
Chan: Yes. As we all know, Fanling is about to have 8 holes taken away from the old course. So, what difference is that going to make, given that, as you said earlier, there are two other courses anyway, so, can't golfers just use the other two golf courses?
Kwok: It will be detrimental to the game of golf if 8 holes are to be taken away because knowing that without 8 holes, we basically lose a course, not just 8 holes because a competitive round of golf is played over 18 holes. So, without any of the 8 holes, we basically will not be able to complete a round of golf on the old course. With the remaining 2 courses left in Fanling, bear in mind we need maintenance every now and then. So, one of the courses has to close for maintenance, so technically there will only be one course left during maintenance days, or the alternate days for maintenance for the other course. So, the availability of play for members and the general public will be largely affected. So, we really hope that we can continue to use the old course for golf, which is for the best benefit of Hong Kong.
Chan: Right. Our Chief Executive, John Lee, I think last week, said that the actual work will continue to reclaim the 8 holes of golf courses, and the international events can still go on. Will there be any issues, from your point of view?
Kwok: That all depends on whether the 8 holes would be remained as a championship golf course condition because this is what various tours, who are in the pipeline of hosting mega sporting events in Hong Kong, including the Aramco Team Series, which is a ladies European tour event. And our Hong Kong Open, international series which is an elevated Asian tour event. And also we are in the shortlisting process to win the LIV Golf Championship, to be hosted in Hong Kong in 2024. So, with all these mega events in the pipeline, they all request that, you know, they need all the land that we have in Fanling, in order for them to host big scale tournaments.
Chan: Captain, I am sure you being a golfer, you being a captain of the Hong Kong Golf Club, and also a member of Hong Kong Golf Association, I’m sure it is in your blood that you want to promote golf in the region. But why do we need all these international events? Because after all, Hong Kong people who are playing golf there, they are what we are most concerned. Then why do we need these tournaments? After all, it doesn't happen every month, right?
Kwok: Well, I think first of all, Hong Kong, post-COVID, really needs to have more reasons for travelers to come to Hong Kong, and to promote Hong Kong abroad as an international city, a mega event capital. So, with these large-scale mega sporting events that we are planning to bring to Hong Kong, it will really put Hong Kong on the world map as a mega event capital.
Chan: Right.
Kwok: And in terms of tournaments, I think the scale of the events that we trying to bring over, it will be like twice or three times bigger than our usual Hong Kong Open. So, the amount of facilities that is needed for the course to support these tournaments is enormous. An average, obviously, golf championship, is played over 18 holes, 18 championship holes. So, the tour selects the 18 best holes from our Eden and new course, to form this composite course, for championship play during the event. But at the same time, because of the large scale that… they want large scale for entertainment for guest engagement, for golf promotion. So, they need the remaining course for their VIPs to play during and before the tournament, as well as to host various golf related clinics on our course. So, which means more support from the club is needed than ever before, in order to host all these mega events.
Chan: Right, just to ask you, just in case we lose these 8 holes, but regularly there will be normal tournaments held over the year, like the Hong Kong Open in October, and also other Asian tournaments in say this year in March. Will they also be affected?
Kwok: Then this will all be up to the tour organizers because after all, we cannot control whether they come to Hong Kong or they would choose a different venue to host tournaments because as I said, golf is increasingly popular amongst the public.
Chan: Right.
Kwok: And there are many venues knocking on their doors, wanting to host international tournaments on their course or in their city, so it is very competitive. And Hong Kong being the financial center, and being the entrance to the Greater Bay Area and to China, it is still a priority for the tours to come to Hong Kong. But if we cannot provide the facilities, the support that is needed, I think they might have to consider elsewhere.
Chan: Right. I believe that in the recent Town Planning Board hearing, the organizers of the Aramco Team Series actually did appear, and they said that Hong Kong would lose out on hosting international events should they lose the 8 holes. So, how serious are they? And actually are they just helping the Hong Kong golf course, golf club, or they are just making a true statement, in your point of view?
Kwok: It is a true statement. And it is their genuine concern because when they choose a destination to host a tournament, they see it for the long run, so they are not here just for a year or two, they want to continue to build on the momentum, that’s from one tournament to another. In order to continue to host tournaments year in, year out, it is very important for these tour organizers. And they are pouring in huge resources and investments into each tournament. So, it is a great concern for them, and I hope the government listens.
Chan: Right. Captain, just before the show we had a brief chat, and you told me the LIV events and also the Aramco Team Series actually had a very important presence by the Middle East, the UAE, right? So, how will you see, if we have that or if we don't have that, in terms of effects on the development of golf in Hong Kong?
Kwok: Well, I think while the government wants to foster a closer relationship with the Middle East, especially with Saudi Arabia, this will be a perfect opportunity for the government to bring the Saudi Arabian delegates over to Hong Kong while we host the international events. For example, Aramco Team Series is title sponsored by the Aramco company, which is th1e largest oil company in the world. And the ownership of the series is the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia, which is also the backer of the LIV golf events, which is a men’s event. And each tournament, for example LIV golf, each tournament, the organizers putting in over $60 million into the tournament. So, it is going to be a huge impact to Hong Kong if we can manage to host them in our city.
Chan: Right. Captain, we only have time for one last question. As you know Hong Kong is well known for having the world’s most unaffordable housing market, and inadequate housing supply is one of the biggest public issues of concern that Chief Executive has said many times. So, the government does have a responsibility to provide more housing. So, don't you think housing is more important than playing international events? My last quick question. And what will you say to our CE if he is listening right now?
Kwok: Well, first of all, I think housing problem is a very important issue that Hong Kong needs to resolve. And we are truly … all in supportive of Hong Kong government in finding lands to build more public housing and affordable housing. But is Hong Kong Golf Club the right place for public housing? I think this is the question that CE needs to consider, whether the golf club has better value in promoting sports, in helping Hong Kong to connect with the world, in bringing in international businessmen and delegates to Hong Kong to foster the economic impact of Hong Kong. Wouldn't that be the bigger role that the Golf Club can play, rather than just using a portion of our land for public housing? I am sure land is of scarcity in Hong Kong, but there are many other options that Hong Kong government can consider for public housing.
Chan: Right. Well, I am afraid that is all the time we have. And thank you, Andy, for sharing with us what golf is all about. We have certainly debunked the myth that golf is only for the rich, and you have also outlined how golf has and can continue to contribute to Hong Kong’s success as a global city. Have a great evening and see you next week.
