Secretary for Labour and Welfare Chris Sun Yuk-han is on Straight Talk this week.

Sun is giving us an update on how all the talent schemes are working and to what conclusion the minimum wage review has brought us.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Chris Sun:

Chan: Welcome to Straight Talk. I'm Eugene Chan. Our guest this evening is the Secretary for Labour and Welfare, Chris Sun. Sun has been with the government service since 1994, serving in various bureaus and departments. He was the deputy secretary for food and health, financial services and the treasury and then commissioner for labour in 2020, before being appointed to lead the Bureau of Labour and Welfare. Welcome, Chris!

Sun: Thanks, Eugene, for having me!

Chan: Secretary, we know that Hong Kong has always been known to be a very good place to work in because we have a very safe city. We have a strong sense of rule of law. There are plenty of opportunities in Hong Kong. And more importantly, we're a very convenient city. We are a few hours from all the major cities in Asia. We now have the high-speed rail, we have a very nice seaport, so very attractive. And now, our government has been trying to draw talent since its inception. And because we know that the working population of Hong Kong has dropped over the last three years, because some people have left Hong Kong as well as a lower birth rate, of course. So, 18 months ago, you were here and you were telling us the government will attract more talent by having schemes and new initiatives. We'd like to see how all your work has been going on and whether Hong Kong is still attractive to foreign talent.

Sun: Thanks, Eugene. It is like a midterm review about how well we have been in the past one and a half years. The last time when I was here for an interview, I talked about the importance of talent and what the government can do to drive the talent attraction. So, by now, one and a half years after that, I can say with a lot of confidence that we've made a lot of progress. If you look at the number, the number is very important. Look at the number of applications we have received. Right now it’s close to 290,000, we've approved 180,000. More than 120,000 talents, they've already arrived here in Hong Kong, contributing to our economy. So, I'm glad to see the result we've achieved.

Chan: So, congratulations, Secretary.

Sun: Thank you.

Chan: Thank you for giving a very good report card to all of us. When you talk about 120,000 have arrived do you mean just themselves or the 120,000 including their families?

Sun: That's about the applicants, so if you take into account dependents and spouses coming with them, it's almost double that right. So, the figures are almost one to one. One applicant as the main applicant is the talent. Under our admission schemes, they can bring along their spouse as well as their dependent children. So, you've looked at the statistics it’s almost one to one.

Chan: So, that means it's double that number.

Sun: Right now in Hong Kong, we have had close to a quarter million people in Hong Kong in the last 18 months.

Chan: We need not just the talents, but that they bring with them their young children.

Sun: Exactly. So, they are looking for a good education here in Hong Kong. That's what we're able to provide to them.

Chan: You know, in the world now, I mean, the manpower shortage is really not unique to Hong Kong, and we talked about this like 18 months ago. So, has the overall situation improved, in your view?

Sun: It has. It has. If you look at the number of talents available to few vacancies, we're seeing more talents being able to contribute their expertise to Hong Kong. Employers they’ve been able to recruit from not just locally, but also from outside of Hong Kong through the various talent schemes. So these are very important to drive Hong Kong to move forward.

Chan: A new initiative called the Top Talent Pass Scheme, TTPS, was introduced at the end of 2022. And to be more specific, how successful has that particular scheme been? Because it's aiming at more middle or higher end of the talent pool and how many people actually have come to Hong Kong?

Sun: If you just look at the Top Talent Pass (Scheme). This is what we see is a marquee, new admission schemes, because the main feature of that scheme is not employment tied, it's clearly talent-driven, talent-specific. So, if you just have to prove that you have the credential, either you are a higher income earner or you graduate from a top university in the world, you'll be able to apply through the Top Talent (Pass) Scheme to come to Hong Kong. We have received more than 80,000 applications ever since its inception one and a half years ago. We have approved around 65,000. More than 50,000 people have arrived here in Hong Kong through that scheme. So, again, it's a one-to-one. If you look at principal applicants it is about 50,000. Then about, they will bring with them almost 1 to 1, with their spouse and dependent children. So, we're talking about that scheme alone is 100,000 people coming to Hong Kong.

Chan: I'm sure the viewers will be very happy to sort of listen to your reminder again, it is not employment tied. So, that means if we have friends or relatives that are of high caliber, they can apply to Hong Kong and let's come here first and then they can slowly look for the work they are aiming for, isn't it?

Sun: Yes, but the idea is, of course for the first application, they don't have to have employment here in Hong Kong. But after two years of the initial stay if they want to remain in Hong Kong, apply for a visa extension. They have either to find a job or they set up a company. So, eventually they have to contribute to Hong Kong to prove their worth.

Chan: But what I mean is much easier. I mean, the hurdles much less, I mean they can just come here and then start looking for what they're looking for.

Sun: Right because the purpose is to create a large enough talent pool, so employers can just pick and choose and they can also create among themselves, because they are not just here to look for jobs. Many of them are entrepreneurs.

Sun: Yes they can start off with startups here.

Chan: So, how many actually stayed on? Do we have that figures?

Sun: We have just completed the first round of a very intensive online survey, because we believe in evidence, believe in the data. So, we asked the first batch of newcomers to Hong Kong if, based on that, more than half they've already found a job in Hong Kong. More than 40 percent say they’re staying in Hong Kong and almost 90 percent say they want to come to Hong Kong within a year. Right there's a clear ... A very, very big draw of Hong Kong is that it is attractive to come here.

Chan: Right, I also believe that you have a Hong Kong Talent Engage to sort of a system to integrate even better in Hong Kong. Is that true?

Sun: This is what we call a one-stop shop. So, apart from having all the schemes available, once they come to Hong Kong, even if they are talents, they have the money, they have the resources, they have the good education, still coming to a city new to them, it's quite ... it's not easy for them to get integrated in Hong Kong just within a very short time. So, having a Talent Engage Office where they can contact and we have an increasing partnership network. Through the partnership network, they can get all the information and also support either as accommodation, education or even finding a job.

Chan: So, Chris, I'm sure the viewers are going to ask you, we know that we also have shortages in the age group of workforce of 20 to 29. Is there anything the government is doing to sort of encourage more people to come in that age group?

Sun: Exactly. If you look at the profile of people coming through the Top Talent (Pass) Scheme, they're exactly the talents we need because more than a third, they are below the age of 30. Very young.

Chan: Oh really? It's very encouraging.

Sun: Two thirds they're below the age of 40.

Chan: Right.

Sun: More than 95 percent or around 95 percent, they're below the age of 50. So, these are the young, energetic, well-educated people with the right talent that can help Hong Kong.

Chan: What professions are they mainly coming from?

Sun: We also ask about their employment categories. So, roughly based on our first round of survey, about a third they’re in the finance sector. So, it comes as no surprise to us …

Chan: Right, Hong Kong is a …

Sun: … because we are an international financial city. Around 18 percent, they are engaged in innovation technology, another 18 percent, they are in commerce and business. So, these are all the major sectors of our city.

Chan: And also maybe it's a good point that you can tell the viewers because they have been saying that a lot of the newcomers are having a very strong mainland background. Maybe you can tell the viewers, where they are mainly from, the mainland? Or they're from overseas?

Sun: Of course, if you look at where they're coming from, look at their passport, the majority they're coming from the mainland, but if you look at their education, many of them are receiving education either in the US or Europe, mainly in the UK. So, we are really drawing a good mix of talents with an international perspective and the right education.

Chan: And also I've read that you have a visa scheme for mainland talent, mainly for the GBA, the Greater Bay Area, and now being extended to those in Beijing and Shanghai. Can you comment on the impact of this new initiative?

Sun: This is what our country is doing. They allowed a defined type of talents to come to Hong Kong for a short term stay. So, they expanded it starting with the GBA city. Now it has been expanded to Shanghai and also Beijing. So, that means more people in the mainland can come to Hong Kong through their short-term stay and their stay in Hong Kong has also been extended. They can stay for a longer time.

Chan: Right, I'm going to ask you the last question before the break. We often compare Hong Kong with Singapore and we know that Singapore is always, also needing to get talent. Do you think we are doing well compared to Singapore, are we losing out or are we getting better?

Sun: I would say we're in the game of our own. We're not competing with anyone, we're competing with ourselves. We have to do better. Because if you look at Hong Kong, we have all the qualities to be the top leader in the field of talent attraction.

Chan: Alright. Let's take a break now but viewers stay tuned. We will be right back.

Chan: Thank you for staying with us on Straight Talk. We have our Secretary for Labour and Welfare Chris Sun with us, and we have been talking about attracting talent to Hong Kong, in particular the middle and upper end of our labor force. But it is also important to be inclusive of the whole spectrum of our community. Secretary, we had been concentrating on the Top Talent Pass Scheme, and I am sure many people in Hong Kong will feel that we are short of workers, especially the F&B industry. Some of the friends I've met are saying that Hong Kong is being known now not as a great service place, and they said to me it is not that we don’t want to have the people, we don’t have enough people to do the work. So, are you doing anything about this part of importing labor?

Sun: Yes, indeed. We need not just talent at the high end, we also need manpower to fill a lot of the either low-skilled or semi-skilled, even the non-skilled positions because this is made very clear, if look at our workforce. Our workforce peaked at the year of 2018, so ever since the workforce is on a downward trend. So, for growing city, we need more people to serve us, to fill all the positions. On the labor front, we have, first of all, introduced three sector-specific special schemes for the importation of labor, they cover construction, aviation and transport, and also the CAT workers. We also have a general scheme, now it’s called the Enhanced Supplementary Labour Scheme. So, that is open to everyone to apply for. So, we have received, by now, if in terms of head counts, the applications is around 40,000, half is from the catering F&B industry. So. we have approved by now around 8,000.

Chan: Right.

Sun: But of course, we are speeding up the processing time, so that we can allow those who passed the very stringent requirements because they are, first of all, to prove they cannot recruit the number of employees locally. They have to go through a 4-week local recruitment process, then with the vet to make sure that they meet all the criteria, and then we will give them the quota, and then they can start to recruit from the outside through the importation of labor scheme.

Chan: Right. So, thank you very much for this good piece of news because looks like we can be able to stay in the restaurants a bit longer than closing at 9 o’clock because a lot of restaurants are not having enough waiters and waitresses.

Sun: We have to make sure that we provide the best service. So, to be able to provide the best service, of course we need people. And of course, people that are well trained. So, we are working together.

Chan: Right. And also under your offices, we are going to have the Inaugural Global Talent Summit actually starting today. How is this going to help Hong Kong to attract more talent? It is the first time to showcase Hong Kong as a talent hub, but how is this going to make it supporting to all the schemes that you have?

Sun: The purpose of having the Global Talent Summit, it was just held earlier today, and for tomorrow there will be another one targeting the GBA, together with a two-day, what we call a Career Connect Expo. The very purpose to showcase Hong Kong as the talent hub in this region of the world, we hope by holding this summit with tens and hundreds of speakers from around the world, to cement a position as the leader, as a talent hub, in this area of the world. Through the summit, of course, first of all, we can introduce to a wider audience the various admission schemes in Hong Kong, all the opportunities the talent can seek here in Hong Kong. It has been a big attraction already. So, if you look at the reaction to it, it is very very encouraging.

Chan: Right, so this is going to reinforce our role as a talent hub. So, hopefully, even more good people will come to Hong Kong, isn’t it?

Sun: You need a highlight.

Chan: I see.

Sun: So, with a summit, it is a highlight, we promote it, we tell people about how good we have been doing, all the good things about Hong Kong, why they should come to Hong Kong. We have various promo, so we are highlighting the talents from around the world, so some are from Europe, some are from the USA, some from Asia, some from the mainland, telling their own story about why they are in Hong Kong. Our slogan is “I am here because …”, so I am here in Hong Kong because Hong Kong is a great city, because we have a low taxation system, because we provide all the opportunities for them to develop their career.

Chan: So far, we have talked about attracting talents because as we said earlier in the show, we have lost a bit of the working population. Now we are gradually building up with the momentum with the top end, middle end, even the workers you mentioned. But what about our local talents? I mean we must not forget about them. How are you going to nurture and retain them to stay in Hong Kong?

Sun: They are the key, so the local talents the key to us. So, if you look at the investment in education, it is huge and ever-growing. We have some of the best universities in Asia, many are top ranking universities. We also invest a lot, in terms of retraining, vocational training, and also just continued education. So, we assure that our first priority is to nurture and grow our local talents. It is only when our local talents are not enough, and then we have to look outside to complement our local talents. But they will remain the cornerstone of Hong Kong.

Chan: Right. So, secretary, we had the CEO of Hong Kong Tramways here two weeks ago, and then he said to me that there is a shortage of skilled technicians to even maintain the tram because a lot of the technicians are getting aged with time. So, are there any plans to sort of expand or diversify our vocational training programs? Because in the community, we need all areas of workers, so that we have more people to serve different industries. Do you have any plans for that as well?

Sun: We have just put in place an incentive scheme to encourage more people to join the vocational training. So, we provide additional subsidies, it is actually HK$1,000 more a month for those taking vocational training as apprentice, and we will also provide more money for them to get advanced training after that. So, this is one part of it. We also, of course, have to go outside and encourage more young people, say if they are interested in the vocational training, so if they can start it. So, we are doing everything possible to make sure that we have the right people, to have the right vocational training background, to help drive our economic growth.

Chan: Right. Secretary, so far we've talked basically everything under your portfolio that all sectors of the community. But one area that we must also touch on today since you are here is what has been in the news lately – the statutory minimum wage – that has been in the news last few days. And can you give us a very brief background of what it is and when and why do you have to put this in place?

Sun: To put it in a very one short sentence, we are making a milestone. From 2011, we had our statutory regime for minimum wage, so far the scheme works as follow: So, almost every 2 years, the commission, they came together through a very complicated and time-consuming process, they try to negotiate a rate for the minimum wage in the coming 2 years. But this is not responding well enough to our societal needs. Right now what we have to do is we want to have a yearly, rather than just biannual review process, review cycle. So, in order to have a review of raise every year, we cannot use the existing systems, we have to migrate to a more reliable, certain and less time-consuming process. So, the decision has come, it is to adopt a formula approach. So, the formula right now, it consists of 2 components – one component is the inflation factor, the other is called the economic growth factor. For both factors, because we are talking about people earning just the minimum wage, we make sure that there will be no downside risk. So, we guarantee that there will be no reduction in the rate, even if we are seeing a … not adjusted inflation, we have deflation, they can still maintain it. But in times of inflation, we give them full, for the economic growth factor, again it is a guarantee, even if there is negative growth, they will see no reduction; but if there is increase, we are doing well enough, there is a sharing about 20 percent will be given to those.

Chan: Right. Secretary, I want to ask you even more specific. I know that the minimum wage is set to be just over HK$40 odd per hour. And I am sure the viewers are going to ask you: is this going to be adequate to cover their living in Hong Kong? Everything is getting more expensive. But at the same time, how many… what proportion of our workforce is actually receiving the minimum wage? And what type of jobs do they do?

Sun: The purpose of having a statutory minimum wage is to provide a guarantee to those that are not having the bargaining power, we want to make sure that their pay is not too low.

Chan: Right.

Sun: So, this is the very purpose of it. Right now, just around 0.6 percent of our workforce, they are receiving a minimum wage. That translates into around 17,000, so just a small number of people that are receiving the minimum wage.

Chan: When you mentioned that it is linked to the GDP as well as the inflation, I mean how welcome is this to the… by our labor unions?

Sun: I think the Commission has done a great job, they have sought to strike balance between the needs of the labor side, also the concerns of the business side. So, that formula is agreed unanimously by members on the Commission, consisting both from the labor side, from the employer side, and also from the academics. So, based on my experience, ever since the past week or so, I have been speaking to a lot of people from different backgrounds. So, I can say this formula and this approach is acceptable to them in general.

Chan: Right. Let me ask you one final question. One economic academic has said that annually adjusting the minimum wage will result in high labor costs and lead to higher price of services and goods, which will jack up the inflation. Do you agree?

Sun: I don't think so because we are just talking about a very, very small number of people receiving minimum wage. And also if you look at the design of the formula, it seeks to strike a balance. So, while protecting guarantee to those earning the minimum wage, we will also make sure that the increase will not be excessive.

Chan: Right. I am afraid that’s all the time we have Chris, and thank you very much. And to hear of your good views, it is certainly reassuring that despite the challenges, the government initiatives to attract talents are filling some of the gaps in the workforce. The initiatives to nurture our local talents are also an important element to ensuring increasing growth and development of Hong Kong’s economy.

As Steve Jobs said, “The secret of our success is that we have gone to exceptional length to hire the best people in the world”. Have a good evening and see you next week!