Editor's Note: Ahead of the 50th anniversary of the signing of the China-US Joint Communique－an important diplomatic document issued by China and the US on Feb 28, 1972, to work toward the normalization of their relations, Cui Tiankai, who served as Chinese ambassador to the US from 2013 to 2021, has a conversation with China Daily reporter Ian Goodrum, also a member of China Daily's Edgar Snow Newsroom. Here are the excerpts:

Q: It's a great honor to be able to speak to you today and we appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and expertise with us. You spent over eight years as ambassador to the US, which I believe is the longest tenure of anyone. What are some of your strongest or most striking memories from your service over that period?

Cui: These eight years are not just an ordinary eight years, a lot has happened during these years. A lot has happened in the world, and in both our countries.

Relations between China and the United States have also undergone a lot of major changes. And for these changes, I'm quite involved, trying my best to help to keep relations on the steady track and to shape the future framework for this important relationship.

Q: What are some of those changes that you witnessed firsthand in your time?

Cui: For instance, we have both faced the changing international order, financial crisis and emerging global challenges like climate change, like the fight against terrorism and the challenges faced by the global system, the multilateral system, and by both our countries.

I think maybe for all countries, but in particular, for countries like China and the US, throughout these years, the most important challenge is still domestic governance.

Because we are facing so many new challenges. We are trying our best to respond to the opportunities and challenges posed by globalization or the attempts to re-globalize or de-globalize.

But of course, we are living in a globalized world. We need multilateral and global cooperation on shared prosperity, financial stability, economic growth, and addressing the issues of poverty, climate change, terrorism, so many of them.

Q: I think in your time you saw three US presidents. So were there differences in administrations when it came to these things that we're talking about, especially as it relates to US-China relations?

Cui: First of all, I think for all these three presidents, I could see, as far as the domestic policies are concerned, the pendulum swings to the left and to the right. I don't know how and when it will come to the middle. This is America's problem.

For the relations between China and the US, I think basically they have tried to manage it. They have tried to move it in a way that will serve American global strategy. So on that, I don't think there are substantive differences. Of course, they use different tactics, and they follow different approaches, so there are also differences.

Q: I saw a report from Newsweek last month that quoted you, that there is a "strong element of racism" in US policy toward China and you said the US would "spare no effort" to "suppress, contain, divide and encircle" China. Would you be able to elaborate on this a little further?

Cui: I was talking about American policy toward China. Certainly I have made so many friends in America. They have friendly sentiments toward the Chinese people. And the same is true on this side.

But as for American policies toward China, you could see some of them, politicians, some of the think tanks or even media people. They are not ready to face a growing and developing China because China belongs to a very different civilization.

So you can really have a sense of such racist elements in the policy. Remember what happened in the last few years during the previous administration, such hate crimes against not only Chinese but also Asians.

Q: If a country like the US is so focused and so intent on this containment and suppression effort, how do you cooperate?

Cui: Fundamentally there's a difference in world outlook. I'm not saying that all Americans believe this, or all Chinese believe that. But for many people in America, there is such a mentality, a mindset of winner takes all, and America should always be the leader in the world, should have global dominance. And maybe America is the only winner and the winner should take all.

But for us in China, it's quite different, we believe in win-win outcomes. We never believe there should be one single, or one or two leaders, in the world, could have total dominance. We believe in real equality among all people and we should try to achieve win-win outcomes. Sometimes you should not have winners vs losers. We need more communication and a better understanding of this.

Q: This leads into another topic in thinking about the two world outlooks. When you talk about that, I think the thing that comes to mind for me is the Belt and Road Initiative. There have been some attacks on the initiative. There has been this throwing about of a phrase, "debt-trap diplomacy".

So first of all, how do you respond to those kinds of allegations? And what does the Belt and Road Initiative specifically tell us about China's world outlook and how that world outlook might differ from other nations?

Cui: I think there's a gross misunderstanding about the Belt and Road Initiative. This initiative is designed to create connectivity among all the participating countries, and to share the opportunity of development and to spread out prosperity.

So what we are doing is actually to help other countries, especially developing countries to get out of the trap of poverty, the trap of underdevelopment. So there's no debt trap.

And also, this is driven by the economic realities. There is complementarity that we should work together.

And number two, such initiatives, the Belt and Road Initiative and other global initiatives proposed by China, are open initiatives. So the US is most welcome to join us.

Actually, take the example of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. They are doing so well. And the British, the Germans, they are all in it and they have also benefited from it. But unfortunately, the US and Japan are still out of it.

So I think the real problem is not that China is trying to keep the US out. The real problem is the US is keeping itself out of such genuine, multilateral global efforts.

Q: So often we hear from the US, the "rules-based international order". What are your thoughts on that? What characterizes China differently in the way it conducts itself internationally?

Cui: First of all, about the so-called rules-based international system, people have to ask, what are the rules? Who made these rules?

They should be based on the United Nations Charter, the purposes and principles of the charter. And the first principle set by the United Nations Charter is sovereign equality of all member states. These are the real internationally accepted rules, and who are abiding by the rules and who are violating these rules is quite clear.

Then as for an initiative like the Belt and Road Initiative, I think the best judges are the countries participating in such an initiative. People can just go to some of the African countries, Asian countries that are taking an active part. They will tell you the true story of how they have benefited from it, how such an initiative is helping all of us.

We are helping others to build up the infrastructure. If they have a good infrastructure, they have the conditions for further development. And if they are connected to other countries by trade, by mutual investment, if they are connected to the global market, then their people have the opportunity to achieve prosperity, to get rid of poverty.

Q: In your time as ambassador you were interviewed frequently and almost always on very specific sets of topics. I'd like to know about your experiences interacting with the media.

Cui: I have had so many interviews when I was the ambassador in Washington, DC, and I have also made many friends in the American media.

I certainly understand the need to do a good job, to outperform some of their colleagues. Sometimes I have disagreements with them, and I have to say it.

I would offer some advice for them to consider. You see human beings, all of us, including you and me, we have our own limitations. We should not believe that just because we are journalists, we are always right. We have the right to criticize others, but we can refuse to listen to others' criticism. I think they should get rid of this kind of mindset.

You see on the top corner of The New York Times, there's a phrase, "All the news that's fit to print". But who is there to decide what is fit, what is not? It's determined by the editors, maybe by the reporters, it's determined by human beings.

Human beings all have our own weaknesses. Sometimes we are misguided and sometimes we have misunderstandings. So I think people working in the media should recognize this.

They should be more open. They should be more ready to listen to others, to tolerate different views.

Q: So what they tended to focus on are made into these hot-button topics such as Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet, the South China Sea, these things in the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic. I'm curious if there was anything you'd like to clarify, maybe there's any kind of misunderstanding or misrepresentation.

Cui: The problem is sometimes they just don't tell the true story. The media is there to help other people to have access to the true stories, to the realities. But sometimes they got a message of their own and they're so obsessed sending their messages or even imposing their messages on others at the expense of truth.

For instance, I have visited Xinjiang more than once in the last few years. I tried my best to share what I saw in Xinjiang on the ground talking to the real people there.

I tried to share all this with some of my friends in the American media. But they just didn't report on all these things. They are so obsessed with the bias or their perception.

You have the question of Taiwan, you have the question in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, and the South China Sea. We are very much on the defensive side and others, some people who have never visited these places, know very little about these places, are trying to criticize China on what we are doing there.

And what we are doing there is very simple. First to defend our sovereignty and territorial integrity. Number two, to develop these places, to develop the entire country. So people in China could enjoy a better life.

Q: What story would you like to share? What aspect of this do you think they could look into and find something that is closer to the truth?

Cui: For instance, what is happening in Xinjiang, some of the people in America, politicians and media people, they are always talking about so-called forced labor.

But if you go there and have a look there is such development in Xinjiang, actually people are using a lot of machines, a lot of high technology to grow plants, like cotton and other things, and people are having new jobs, have new opportunities to make themselves richer and better off.

Q: You mentioned Taiwan and that is obviously foundational for the US-China relationship. There is a lot of misunderstanding about Taiwan.

Cui: As you said, this is a question about the very political foundation of the relations between China and the US. For China, this is really a matter of core interest, a matter of life and death importance for China, because it concerns China's territorial integrity and its sovereignty. So there's no room for compromise or for concession for China.

So I think American policymakers should have a better understanding of the importance and sensitivity of this Taiwan question.

Actually, we talk about the three China-US Joint Communiques. All these joint communiques focused on the Taiwan question. And that is the core issue of all these agreements between the two governments and the US government has committed to implementing the one-China policy.

What they are doing is a clear violation of this one-China policy and the three joint communiques. So if things go on like this, it's going to be very serious and dangerous.

And also China will have to defend our own territorial integrity and will do whatsoever to defend our sovereignty and territorial integrity. But we are not just doing this for our self-interest. In a sense we are doing this for the shared interest of the entire international community.

If China's sovereignty and territorial integrity is violated then that would set a very bad precedent. Today you could violate China's territorial integrity. Tomorrow you could violate another country's territorial integrity.

Q: What are some of the things that have been done that have aggravated this relationship?

Cui: There are so many of them, for instance, American arms sales to Taiwan.

You see this year 2022 would mark the 40th anniversary of the third communique between China and the US, the joint communique on Aug 17 in 1982, which is basically about how to stop American arms sales to Taiwan.

The US made the commitment that it will gradually reduce its arms sale to Taiwan, and eventually it will stop. And it also promised that the remaining sales will not exceed, in quality and quantity, previous levels.

But all these commitments, all such promises were not honored, were not implemented. The US is selling more and more and more advanced, more sophisticated arms to Taiwan.

And also in recent years, there is a clear attempt to upgrade official relations between the US and the Taiwan authorities. They are still telling us this is an unofficial relationship. I don't know how people could be so hypocritical.

Q: So you mentioned the 40th anniversary of the third communique. So there's also the anniversary, I believe, the 50th anniversary of the Shanghai Communique. And this took place during Richard Nixon's visit. What lessons can we take from this moment in time?

Cui: I think the most important agreement in the Shanghai Communique is that the US agreed not to challenge this one-China principle. The US was ready to recognize there's only one China in the world.

Q: There are these accusations being thrown about of "assertiveness" or "aggressiveness".

Where does this come from? How do we clarify this better for people?

Cui: I think sometimes American politicians or maybe even some people in the media, they are very good at putting the label on others for all the things they themselves are doing.

For instance, on the question of Taiwan, what we are doing is very simple. We are defending our territorial integrity and national unity. We are not being aggressive to other countries.

But at the same time, if people are trying to sell arms to support these attempts at so-called independence in Taiwan, if people are selling arms and giving political support to such attempts, this is real action of aggression. Because they are intervening and trying to undermine the unity and territorial integrity of other countries.

Q: We also hear allegations of "assertiveness" as it relates to the South China Sea. Can you talk about the present situation?

Cui: You see in the South China Sea, we have countries putting forward different claims. We have our own claims, and we certainly believe we have sufficient historical and legal foundation for these claims.

There's ongoing effort for the claimant countries to communicate with each other, to work out an agreement. For instance, there are discussions between China and some other countries on the code of conduct.

Actually, we already have the Declaration of Conduct for many years, which is basically a political document. Now we are working on a more binding document, a code of conduct. I think we are making good progress. We want to solve the issue through negotiation.

But now the problem is that the US is trying to intervene, although they have no territorial claims in the region. They are trying to intervene by force. They are sending more and more warships, military planes into the region. Trying to escalate the tension, to stir up conflict.

Q: How do you manage this relationship in a way you can ensure that there's not a risk of this kind of catastrophic event? Because you have to balance the need to protect territorial integrity and to protect sovereignty, but also the need to avoid war between nuclear powers.

Cui: I think for the situation in the South China Sea, if there is no outside interference, I have full confidence the regional countries will be able to solve the disputes by themselves. So hopefully, the US and others will refrain from intruding, intervening into the situation, making things more complicated, even harder to resolve.

As for the possibility of direct conflict between nuclear powers, it's going to be disastrous.

A few days ago, the five nuclear weapons states issued a joint statement to say there should be no attempt to fight such a war and nobody can afford such a war. This is a right statement to make and it has to be implemented.

Q: You mentioned the challenges that face the entire world that can only be solved through joint action. What is the right path for China to take and the US to take?

Cui: I think fundamentally it's a question of world outlook. We have a shared future. That's why we believe that despite all the differences among countries, we should focus on the common challenges, on the real global challenges, and a shared interest for the long run.

But sometimes there's too much obsession in America about global dominance, or as they say leadership. They believe everything is a zero-sum game.

We are all living on a small planet, the global village. And there are things that will affect us all, whatever our political beliefs, whatever our cultural values. We have to work together to address these real issues for the benefit of everybody.

We have different cultures, different political systems. This is a kind of diversity in the world. We should try our best to turn these differences into opportunities of mutual understanding and cooperation. So if people could have such a world outlook, we could really make a much better world.

Q: I wonder, you as a diplomat, having served as long as you have, how do you navigate these realities? How does a diplomat work in an environment such as this?

Cui: As diplomats, we should have an open mind, we should always be ready to learn more about others and to learn more from others. We have to have a good understanding of our own culture, our own system.

But we are also ready to understand others. We are also ready to recognize that other people, other nations have a different historical background. They may have a different path for their development. We believe people should have the right to determine their own destiny. But as part of the human being, as part of the international community, we share so many things.

I think these are the basic things a diplomat has to believe in. And because we are diplomats, we should help others. I mean people in our own country, people in other countries to have better communication and better mutual understanding to avoid misunderstanding, misperception, miscalculation, and to certainly avoid conflicts and confrontation.

Q: Do you consider yourself an optimist for the future?

Cui: We should have confidence in ourselves, especially both China and the US, we are great countries.

And maybe what we can do as individuals is very little. But if all of us can do our own bit, then we put all the efforts together and we'll make a difference.