Fintech lawyer Kristi Swartz of DLA Piper is on the show this week.

Swartz says the uncertainty created by the trade war started by the US (and its tariffs) "probably has brought more to the region because of the certainty" offered in Hong Kong.

She suggests Asia market in itself is always an attractive place for investors: "Does it necessarily mean that it has to go to the United States or Europe? Maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be", "... regulatory certainty for any business is always what attracts business ..."

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Kristi Swartz:

Chan: Good evening! I'm Eugene Chan, and we are on Straight Talk, speaking with Kristi Swartz, a leading fintech lawyer, partner and tech sector lead for Asia at DLA Piper. Based in Hong Kong for over 25 years, Kristi has been instrumental in shaping our city’s fintech ecosystem. She has been ranked as a Band One individual by Chambers Fintech Guide and is a multiple-time honoree by Legal 500 and ALB Asia. Kristi was also recently named a winner of the FT Innovative Lawyers in Fintech & Digital Assets Asia Pacific 2024 Awards. This evening, we will be asking Kristi about how Hong Kong’s fintech sector has evolved, where it stands today, and where it's headed, with a special focus on attracting and retaining talent in our city. Welcome, Kristi!

Swartz: Thank you, Eugene. I'm very excited to be here.

Chan: Good. You came to Hong Kong … over 25 years, nearly 30 years ago. What initially drew you here and where are you from as well?

Swartz: Of course. Very good question, Eugene. In fact, some people may think that there's a lot of differences between you and me. But in fact, I'll hopefully demonstrate there's not that many differences between you and me. Originally, I'm from Texas, a proud University of Texas at Austin graduate. I decided to go overseas to go to law school at the University of Westminster, and that's probably a pivotal time for me. I met many people from Hong Kong at that time who had gone abroad to study, gone to boarding school, and as luck turned, I had a classmate sitting in my class with me at law school, whose sister worked at the University of Hong Kong. And when I kept hearing about this magical place called Hong Kong, I said, you know, I want to try to see if I can get there. And he said, “Look, Kristi, when I go home at Christmas, I'll pick up an application form for you, to be able to apply to the University of Hong Kong.” And I said, “Wow!” That's showing my age a little bit too, when I think about fintech and having an actual application form. But as the story goes, I basically, long story short, applied to the University of Hong Kong, was accepted to their LLM program, and as luck had it, again, I was able to article an intern with Vincent TK Cheung at Yap & Co with the late Vincent Cheung, and had the honor and pleasure after that even to work with Peter Lee of Henderson Land Group, then of Henderson China. So, yes, I've had a very interesting career and very blessed one.

Chan: Right. So, Kristi, thank you very much for sharing basically your sort of career so far to today. I think a lot of viewers will be asking you, as an American person, why did you choose to study law in Hong Kong? That's very interesting, isn't it? Because we get foreign lawyers, and we, of course, welcome them, but to come to Hong Kong universities to study is something that not many Americans or people originally from foreign countries will do. Why did you choose Hong Kong?

Swartz: Well, it was an interesting time. So, I arrived in the fall of 1996. So, of course, Hong Kong was going through the handover the next year, July 1997. I thought it was an absolutely amazing time to learn something new. As I always say, you've got to kind of walk the walk and talk the talk. So, if I wanted to do international corporate law, why not be able to look at and see Hong Kong as an international jurisdiction, especially for Asia. It’s probably the leading financial and regulatory place for doing many, many corporate exercises in Asia. So, why not? – I guess is the question.

Chan: Kristi, I mean, you're … I can just turn back our clock. We know that we could be in the ’90s. What would be the first thing that sort of strike you most when you come to Hong Kong, as compared to 2025? Some, for me, like 20 odd years down the track.

Swartz: I think the first thing when I arrived in Hong Kong, I arrived by myself. It was a very hot summer day, but, you know, the thing about it is, is the airport. It was electric. It was, it was, there was a buzz about it. I then went …

Chan: It was at Kai Tak?

Swartz: It was at Kai Tak, yes. And, you know, you kind of landed there, and there was so much going on, and you just saw people moving, and there was a long line, long queue, and everyone saw me with so much luggage and so many things, and they're like, obviously this girl's come to stay, and I guess that's it. I came 25, 26 or 27 years ago, and I'm here to stay.

Chan: How do you feel now? I know you do a lot of business travel.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: How does that feel when you come back to new Chek Lap Kok airport after all these years?

Swartz: I think the difference is that it used to be something amazing, but, you know, you can't take that away. When you used to fly in, of course, Kai Tak, people used to say you could be able to look at people eating dinner and all that. It's very true, but it did give you that kind of warmth and that feeling. I don't think that's changed just because we've moved airports. By the way, I think when you land, you still feel that warmth, you feel the click, you feel the buzz, you feel the energy at the airport. And I think that's something that's just uniquely Hong Kong.

Chan: Right, Kristi, I know our government, Secretary for Labour and Welfare Chris Sun Yuk-han, has been trying to attract talents to come to Hong Kong, because every place wants more talents to join.

Swartz: Sure.

Chan: You, being a person that has been here, and you've been successful, we used to advise young professionals to come to Hong Kong …

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: … because the reason I'm asking is, there's a lot of geopolitics going on, and people get worried. Because I was reading over news, actually, you see traveling between countries has actually decreased, maybe, put people a bit worried, maybe, maybe the finances. I mean, many reasons. What would you advise somebody who's thinking to … as a young professional, what are the main factors they must consider before they move to Hong Kong, for example?

Swartz: Well, I think there's a lot of things to consider, but first of all, you probably have to have a sponsor, you have to have a job, or you have to have an inkling idea what you want to do. Now, there's some people that come here without that, and I think Hong Kong does allow you that entrepreneurial spirit, to be able to set up easily, quickly, fast, and actually be able to hire. So, if you wanted to come here and actually start a business, that's easy. If you're coming here as a younger person, as I once was, and when I once did, I think the suggestions I would have: know before you go. Luckily, our immigration policy in Hong Kong is, in fact, another reason that basically brought me from the UK, where I was studying, to Hong Kong, because the immigration policy made it very easy for me to stay after I finished my studies, to then continue on and get a job. There are quite a few jobs, I would suggest, and especially in the fintech space, there's people looking for the opportunities. There are ample jobs. I think Hong Kong as a whole has, you know, a lot of jobs on offer. But I do think the opportunity, I mean, let's look at the universities we have here. If you're coming here to study, you've got top 10, top 25 universities, you know, with the University of Hong Kong, Chinese University of Hong Kong, you know, you've got Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. So, you've got a lot of really good reasons to come to Hong Kong …

Chan: Yes.

Swartz: … to work and to study.

Chan: Right, Kristi, let's move back to the topic today. When you first arrived, Hong Kong had already been a financial hub …

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: … but I'm sure the word fintech wasn't even on the radar.

Swartz: No.

Chan: It may not have happened then. So, how have you seen our Hong Kong legal and regulatory landscape adapt to this fintech, something that we want to talk about today.

Swartz: Sure, maybe I’ll talk about what fintech is and how we see it in everyday life first.

Chan: Right, maybe even the better question to ask you is, if you could explain that to our grandparents …

Swartz: Okay.

Chan: … they will … want some simple terms what fintech is all about.

Swartz: Yes, so basically, it's just technology that has been basically created and put into what we call traditional finance and made things either quicker, faster, more economically easier to facilitate, which brings about help and cost efficiency as well as deliverables. Some very easy examples, you know it talks about economic turmoil. If you basically didn't have fintech here, you would have had to have been lining up at the bank with your wealth manager or to be able to figure out what to do.

Chan: So, are you saying that even on those apps we have, and your cell phones is part of fintech?

Swartz: It is part of fintech. So, I'd call, your FPS, your PayMe, basically your online brokerage account, your FX trading, Octopus. Octopus is a great example.

Chan: Right. If that's the case, I mean, Hong Kong, as an international financial center, we've always been, sort of, up to date with that. But how do you see Hong Kong as compared to other financial centers? Because you've seen the world.

Swartz: Right.

Chan: How has Hong Kong been compared? I mean, ranking wise, we are number three, but there are many centers, like Singapore, Dubai and neighboring cities. How are we that much … Are we that far ahead compared to them?

Swartz: So, let's take a couple of examples. I've been in the fintech space for probably 15 years. Why? Because that's what clients brought to me and said, “Hey, Kristi, can you solve this regulatory issue? Can you basically figure out? Do I need to be regulated? Yes or No.

Chan: Right.

Swartz: So, I think that's the first one. But if we take example of Octopus again, Octopus has been around, what, 15 years, at least 20 years. Yeah, that's a great example about how we've got the store value facility, how it's been able to be transported into not just for transportation. We can use it for a multitude of things. So, I would say that Hong Kong has been on the map for quite some time, and continues to be. Now what Hong Kong does and does really well, we come up with ideas. If you ask me, all of the crypto exchanges, for instance, were actually probably born … the notable ones anyway, were born in Hong Kong. Now they exported and did other things. But Hong Kong has a really great ability to be able to find out what we need, focus on what the problem is, fix it, find a solution, and then we can export it to other jurisdictions, because we've got the technology.

Chan: Right, Kristi. Before we go to the break. I want to ask you one direct question. I know, Hong Kong is pushing to be a digital asset hub.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: As we compare to other financial centers, like Dubai and Singapore or even the US, do we have a niche?

Swartz: Do we have a niche? Absolutely, we've been around, we've set up, we've got the track flight space, and we've been in that space and doing it well, and our SFC licensing has a very strong value in the market. I would say, I'm a little bit biased, of course, because we were instrumental in writing the rules and laws for Vara (Virtual Assets Regulatory Authority of Dubai). But would I say that they're ahead of us? In some aspects, they're doing something a bit different. So, we've all got to figure out what our thing is and do that thing. With respect to the US, the US has got a lot of things to figure out in the virtual asset space, anyway. They're starting to get their act together. In that respect, being American, it's very sad to say that I think it's going to be probably two or three years, even if they decide tomorrow what to do in this space. So, the great opportunity that we have is to strike while the iron is hot. Others are basically not quite there yet. Some people are doing it, maybe a bit differently. But this is a team sport. Fintech is a team sport. You can't do this all on your own and expect it to be something that's not going to be in our 7.5 million population. So, I think you have to look at it from the fact that Dubai will do what Dubai is going to be, and they do it really well, but it basically is for the Middle East. We do what we do extremely well, and that's for Asia. And then you've got the US who basically brings yet another dynamic. So, if you're looking for global companies, you have to have all of the pieces and parts to make that global company.

Chan: Right, okay. So, Kristi, let's take a short break now. And viewers, we will be right back after the break.

Chan: Welcome back! Kristi Swartz, a leading fintech lawyer, is with us demystifying the world of fintech for us. So, Kristi, in the first half, you have said it very clearly that Hong Kong is a sort of a world stage player for fintech, and we have all the ecosystem for it to develop and we must be able to work together with the rest of the world, and Hong Kong is a great place to do this. But with the recent … you know, in the last couple of weeks, we have all these news about all these tariffs and all these trade wars and all that. Has that political or economic sort of climate impacted fintech innovation in Hong Kong or even investment in this region?

Swartz: Yes, I would suggest that it probably has brought more to the region because of the certainty, the regulatory certainty and the regulation, and the fact that government is encouraging it. So, yes, I would think that it has definitely encouraged people to actually be in Hong Kong.

Chan: Right. And also another thing is Hong Kong, under the 14th five-year plan for our nation, China, we have been trying to say, “Right, let's be an innovation hub”. But say Asia has never been seen to be as innovative as a place like Silicon Valley. Would you agree to that anymore?

Swartz: I wouldn't, because if you look at the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area, in particular, if you look at Hong Kong and Shenzhen, where else do you have in the world what I call “hardware-software”? And that is that you have got everything in the world being made in China, in Shenzhen, Guangdong area. And you have got basically the adaptation and the ability to bring it to market through Hong Kong. So, I would suggest that Silicon Valley has its place, yes, it basically is very important. But Hong Kong, I think we have the opportunity now to basically strike while the iron is hot, and to move forward, and to really take advantage of Greater Bay Area. And the collaboration we have between the governments, and China’s government has been pushing a lot with the Greater Bay Area collaboration and in the tech parks, etc. We have got the ability and the absolute, I guess, ecosystem again, already there. We just need to basically strike on it.

Chan: Right. Kristi, I think we are very fortunate to have you on the show because you are actually on the frontline, dealing with international companies and all these tech companies. So, we are trying to attract tech companies and talents to come to Hong Kong. Does Hong Kong offer an attractive environment for the companies or the talents to come and actually may even retain, and be like yourself, continue to stay here? Do we have those attractions? Or what else can the government do? Or is there something missing still?

Swartz: Well, I think we have the attraction, first of all, to get people here; it’s not a problem. You have got funding. You have got, like I said, talent, you have got the ecosystem, you have got the professionals in the workspace, DLA Piper, you have got other law firms, you have got KPMGs, and the PWCs of the world. So, you need that ecosystem to actually build the fintech world, you need that. We have got it. What we could be doing slightly better, maybe to get to market quicker. I think probably the regulation could be slightly quicker. We don't seem to get things to market as quickly as other places. And we could possibly look to have a little bit more cooperation with the industry as a whole. But could we be doing things? I think we are doing things. It is not a matter of us being able to say, “Oh, we are sitting on our hands and not looking at this” and kind of saying “Well, let's just see what is coming”. It is a matter of actually just getting it to execution and getting it out to market. In fact, when you ask around, when Consensus, the tech fair that was just in Hong Kong, if you ask around, everyone says, “I can feel the buzz, I feel like Hong Kong is on the precipice of something just about to happen, there is going to be some new innovation, there is going to be some new things”. I think with DeepSeek coming out not too long ago and making their announcements, you know, who knows what is bubbling and percolating under the system, but it is there, we have got it, it just needs to go to market. And I think probably the other thing is that we get it to China, we get it into Hong Kong, we need to look at how we spread it to other places, either within Asia or to other parts of the world. I think we have got a few great examples through WeLab. You know, the Hong Kong Investment Corporation has actually just recently put money into WeLab.

Chan: Right.

Swartz: But WeLab's has been a very interesting case. They set up in Hong Kong about 13 years ago, and they then looked at Indonesia, and then they are looking now at Thailand. So, Hong Kong is a very good place to look at how you springboard into other locations, but also springboard from the mainland to Hong Kong, and then outwards as well.

Chan: So, just now you are just using WeLab, one of the digital banks, as an example.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: Actually we are planning to bring WeLab here soon as well.

Swartz: Oh, great.

Chan: So, we can ask them how they actually did it. I remember, actually we tried to invite you here earlier, but because I know there is a big conference here in Hong Kong that was … it is called Consensus, it is about bringing all the fintech people together.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: And we had it a few years back, and Singapore took over, and then now we have got it. We are sort of chairing it again, but then you were traveling, so we can't get you here. So, what exactly happen in a conference like an international conference having in Hong Kong?

Swartz: I think when you have like people who are the think tanks, who are the actual people, the regulators, if you have the people that are in charge of different jurisdictions come, and all sit around and talk about, and be honest around the problems they are having, things they could be doing better, things they want to attract. I mean, we are not specific and I wouldn't say “Unfortunately, Hong Kong's not special in this respect”. We are all looking for the talent, there is not that much talent in this space out there. So, the fact we have got so much of the talent, we should be proud of that because it is something that we have until now, at least within my team at DLA. I am having to basically home grow the talent and basically then see how we can grow the team because it is not something that you can easily hire off the market.

Chan: Right. When you mentioned where you have the international conference, you have a lot of people who came, do you see interest of them wanting to stay in Hong Kong? Or would you say that we had a lot of myths about Hong Kong in the last few years?

Swartz: I think there has been a lot of myths.

Chan: Yeah.

Swartz: With Consensus, we had 10,000 people attending, ex-Hong Kong, 75 percent of that basically came from outside. So, that is a pretty good number. Would I say that there is myths about Hong Kong? Probably, but I always say, “Come, take a look around, seeing is believing.” So, I do believe that when people come here, they say Hong Kong's back again, and to which I say, “Well, I don't think Hong Kong was ever gone, but I think we maybe took time to figure out where our niche was going to be, what we want to do, what we want to be”. And I think that is part of anybody's identity in the country when they are trying to figure out what to do in this space.

Chan: Right. Kristi, you know, we sort of often hear news from the mainland and the leader was saying that we have to … actually in the recent two sessions, they said we have to integrate even better internationally.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: So, with the GBA right by our side and also with this geopolitical thing happening at the moment, how do you see Hong Kong be able to do even better in terms of building this role and reinforcing itself as a real financial center? What would you advise us to do?

Swartz: I think we have got to look at some of the regulations, we have got to look at some of the times what we want to export to the world. Again, WeLab is a great example of what we want to export. They were one of the first of the eight banks here that were under the virtual banking license that were granted. I think if you want to look at what we want to do, does it necessarily mean that it has to go to the United States or Europe? Maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be. I mean Asia is a pretty big place and a pretty good place in itself. So, I am not sure that we have to be looking always to conquer the world. I think we just need to figure out which bits of it that we are interested in. But I do think the mainland government has been very good in saying, under the GBA, to say, “Hey, if you are looking at doing something, come to Hong Kong, transplant there, and then figure out where you want to go because Hong Kong has had that experience about going international and being international”.

Chan: Right. Kristi, I am sure you read from the news that our chief executive is going to bring a delegation to the Middle East, say, next month.

Swartz: Yes.

Chan: Would you say fintech or even our regulatory sort of framework in Hong Kong would be an attraction for other businesses to come to Hong Kong? And if they use Hong Kong as a base or even as a main branch, it is going to bring a lot of businesses to Hong Kong, would you say that will be an opportunity or sort of the next way out for Hong Kong?

Swartz: Yes, so, I think regulatory certainty for any business is always what attracts business to come to a place. So, the more we can give regulatory certainty around virtual assets, around any type of new businesses, fintech and the like, of course businesses are going to like that. It is long gone are the days that people say “I don't want to be regulated and who cares about it”, and “I am just going to basically give up on that” or “I am just not going to get regulated and go to someplace else”.

Chan: Right.

Swartz: Those days are gone. So, I think regulatory certainty definitely drives business to a jurisdiction.

Chan: Right. Kristi, I am going to ask you a very personal question right at the end of the show. I like the word you used – “certainty”. You know, being sort of a person from the US, an American, you know, your President Donald Trump has been having sort of new ideas sort of recently. Will you say that sort of so-called uncertainty will make you more convinced to be in Hong Kong in the next years to come?

Swartz: For sure. I mean why wouldn't you want to be in a place that you have got more certainty than less, especially if you're running a business? As you probably know, Eugene, I used to have my own business, and there is no benefit in basically having uncertain times. It is a lot of gray hairs and a lot of sleepless nights. So, I think anybody who wants to have certainty obviously would come to Hong Kong and enjoy what we have to offer here.

Chan: Right, Kristi, thank you very much for you giving the viewers some insights on this area in fintech. With Hong Kong's firm commitment to global standards and continued investment in talent and infrastructures, our city is well-positioned to seize the opportunities ahead in the evolving fintech landscape.

Until next time, I am Eugene Chan, and, thank you for watching Straight Talk.