Music and Creative Arts Director of St. Paul’s Co-educational College and Primary School, Warren Lee, and Conductor of the SPCC Senior Mixed Voice Choir, Apollo Wong, are on the show this week.

They are sharing with us how music education can shape youth development in Hong Kong.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Warren Lee and Apollo Wong:

Chan: Good evening and welcome to Straight Talk! I'm Eugene Chan. Joining us this evening, to discuss the topic “Can music education shape Hong Kong's youth?” are two guests with incredible talent and experience in the field of music. First, we have Music and Creative Arts Director at St. Paul’s Co-educational College and Primary School, Warren Lee. Lee is a celebrated concert pianist, composer, and educator. Warren has been a Steinway artist and made his televised debut with the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra at the age of six and has since performed on five continents, earning accolades such as the first prize at the Stravinsky Awards International Piano Competition.

Our second guest is Conductor of the SPCC Senior Mixed Voice Choir, Apollo Wong. Wong, himself, is an opera singer and is currently the Chorus Master of the Hong Kong Philharmonic Chorus as well as the Music Director of the Learners’ Chorus.

Both Warren and Apollo have been instrumental in nurturing our young music talent in Hong Kong. Welcome, Warren and Apollo!

Lee: Thank you.

Wong: Thank you.

Chan: So, you were both at the recent 13th world choir games in Auckland, where the St. Paul Senior Mixed Voice Choir that you conduct, Apollo, won first place in the secondary school choir section. Congratulations to both of you, and that was the reason why we have this interview, especially when I saw a video at the prize presentation ceremony where your students proudly ran forward with the school flag, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region flag and our national flag to receive their award. This was a truly heartwarming and inspiring moment. So, Apollo, what was the moment like for you? What did it mean to you to see your students achieving this honor and celebrating in such a meaningful way?

Wong: Well, of course, first of all, it's like a dream come true for all of us. And it's actually the fifth time, I think, for our school to participate in this competition, and it's actually over the seventh cloud for us, because we all knew how hard the students have worked for the whole year, and we've seen their progress from almost some of them not knowing how to read music, to be able to sing on an international stage, and have been recognized as one of the best groups in the category.

Chan: Right. So, Warren, can you tell us a bit more about this competition? Why is it called the Choir Games?

Lee: It was, well, we started entering these Choir Games in 2008 and back then it was called the Choir Olympics. So, it's got this Olympic spirit where the choir would represent the countries, and we would have a parade of the nations at the beginning, and at the award ceremony, the winning choirs would go onto the stage, and they would play the national anthem, and everyone would rise and sing. So, that's what everyone saw on social media.

Chan: So, did many choirs from Hong Kong competed in this event?

Lee: I think, in the past, there have been schools, secondary schools, and also community choirs who participated and in this year's games, there are at least, I think, four or five schools in the same competition, but in different categories.

Chan: So, Apollo, I mean, you have been teaching and in the music scene for quite some time, honestly. What was the standard of the Hong Kong choirs when it's sort of presented at the international level?

Wong: Well, for some of my friends who come from abroad, who are conductors and composers, they're actually very surprised about how vibrant the choral scene is in Hong Kong, and it actually got a lot more diverse in the past decade, let's say. It got a lot more active, and a lot more people were singing. And this is a very encouraging decade for us.

Chan: Right, the standard in Hong Kong is extremely high, in other words?

Wong: I think so, yes.

Chan: So, Warren, I mean, since you are in the sort of a music director planning for the students, are there many other international competitions that our Hong Kong choirs can participate in?

Lee: There are many, and there's an increasing number of international competitions. In Singapore, Japan. Where else ... in Europe? Our other choir, our treble choir, just recently participated in a competition festival in Italy at the end of August. We had a very busy summer. There is no shortage of international competitions. And I think different schools are going to different destinations, but the world Choir Games is still one of the biggest in terms of numbers.

Chan: But I would say most of the Hong Kong choirs perform very well, and then get a lot of worldwide acclaim. Am I correct to say that?

Lee: Yes, definitely. And when we go out, we are proud of Hong Kong, not just confined to our own school and our choirs. Every time we see a Hong Kong choir, we're proud of them.

Chan: So, Apollo, you just mentioned that it has been quite a journey from rehearsing until winning the competition. What would you say would be one of the common challenges the students face during this preparation for this international event?

Wong: Well, international events or not, for example, for concerts or even local competitions in Hong Kong, the main challenge would be their time management for schoolwork and their extracurricular activities and demanding music from the choir, and it's actually quite difficult to learn, especially the music for international competition. To sing well, they have to understand what's behind the piece, and they have to understand the text or even the subtext. So, there is lots of work behind it.

Chan: Apollo, we all have been students before. We all sang in choirs before, and you know, very often for children or younger age students, sometimes their parents really have to push them. Do you find that at the current day students, do they have their own initiative ... Do you have to force them to practice? In other words.

Wong: Well, I don't take it as forcing them, but we really have to make an effort to encourage them, very, very hard, sometimes, especially during exam periods or right before exam periods, we have to really have them work very hard in school, or encourage them to work outside school and to balance their academics as well.

Chan: Warren, just now you mentioned that there is no shortage of international competition for our choirs in Hong Kong to participate and to learn. I'm sure this is.... I'm sure you need a lot of resources. I can just imagine, when you have a choir travelling like 30, 40, even 60, 70, people, there's a lot of costs involved in logistics, sort of have to be going through. Would this be exclusively, mainly for the more privileged schools?

Lee: Unfortunately, I think the reality is that, yes, it does cost money to go on these tours. But luckily, in Hong Kong, there are competitions and also festivals that are equally worthwhile. They bring in overseas guests and experts to work with them, one of which is up and coming. It's the Hong Kong inter-school choral festivals, where over 250 schools and their choirs participated. And it's in their eighth year running this year and it's that's almost like half of the number of schools in Hong Kong that have a choir and they're singing and getting feedback and opportunity to perform.

Chan: So, definitely, personally, you have strong favoritism of our choirs participating in all these international events, isn't it?

Lee: Yes.

Chan: I mean, the government has been trying to instil a stronger sense of belonging and what we call a national identity amongst our youth. Do you think this sort of competition may help with it in a soft way? How do you feel about that?

Lee: I think any opportunity to go out and represent Hong Kong and the country, China, would do that, would serve that effect. We don't need to actually tell our choirs that you have to sing the national anthem. It just happens very naturally…

Chan: Very natural, is that?  

Lee: Yes, it's just like we watch the Olympics together in shopping malls…

Chan: Exactly.

Lee: ... and they will just cheer. It's the atmosphere. And sometimes not just going to the Chinese mainland, but also just going overseas, you see that other countries also root for their own countrymen and countrywomen, so it's a very natural thing to do.

Chan: Apollo, you have worked with various choirs and musical ensembles. I mean, I've listened to you many times and how do you see choral music contributing to the development of young people, not only musically, but personally. How do you feel about that?

Wong: Well, for me, anybody can sing, but for younger people, other than just speaking their emotions, I think singing is what we call heightened speech. And it helps all, in fact, not just youth but everybody to express their emotions a lot better through singing. So, anything that goes through singing, it's actually better.

Chan: Alright. Let's take a short break now and viewers, stay tuned. We will be right back.

Chan: Thank you for staying with us. Warren Lee, the music and creative arts director, and Apollo Wong, the conductor of the senior mix voice choir, both from SPCC, are with us this evening and have been sharing with us how music education can shape youth development in Hong Kong.

In the first half, I mean we have heard a lot of good things about choral music, and how it sort of attributes to personal development. So, Warren, as an educator and leader of a very famous high school, do you believe that music education can shape our students, in terms of personal growth and development? And to what extent does it help?

Lee: Well, absolutely it helps. And it's the very reason why we focus so much on music in education. I actually call it music in education, rather just music education. It was actually one of our former principal who said that if someone is good in music or interested in music, he or she can't be that bad or, you know, behavior and whatnot academics.

Chan: And I am sure you are referring to our late Bobbie Kotewall, isn’t it?

Lee: Yes, yes. And for sure there are many transferable skills that actually Apollo already mentioned. Time management, discipline, perseverance, resilience, everything it comes from being in the team, you know, working towards the same goal. And that is exactly what we like to do at St. Paul’s. One of the classic examples I quote, when I first became music director years ago, and I received a call from an alumni, looking for a clarinet teacher post retirement. And that happened to be the former chief justice, Andrew Li. So, he was still the chief justice and he called the school general line, and just asked for the music director, and asked for a recommendation. He said he learnt the clarinet when he was in a high school student, but just didn't have time to play. But the first thing he wanted to do after retirement was to play music. And I think that is a sort of classic example of how we want our students right now at St. Paul’s. They might become doctors, lawyers, and whatnot, as long as they enjoy playing music and let music have a role to play in their lives, I think we would consider our jobs well done.

Chan: Right. Apollo, I mean you are also one of St. Paul’s graduate. And can you share some examples to the viewers that you have personally witnessed over the years that have been someone … I mean they may not be the best position, but they love music, and you see that their career or the education being, I would say, complimented by the music itself? Have you seen many examples?

Wong: Yes, actually some of my previous students, who are actually in their own fields. For example, some of them are doctors, they have to really have to listen to music and even sing, even when they are doing surgery.

Chan: Really?

Wong: Yes. Inside the hospital …

Chan: In the theatre.

Wong: Yes. And after the working hours, they can’t stop singing, they just keep coming to some of my choirs. And like you said, some of our old schoolmates, they would go to our alumni choir at the school. They just cannot stop singing in choirs. And singing, like I said in the first part, singing makes any verbal communication better. And singing together, as a choir, as a team, is even better.

Chan: Right. So, Warren, you are now the music director for a very established school. And I am sure your job is to put this music in education to the students. However, there are millions of subjects, they all their own emphasis as well. How do you integrate this into the broader school curriculum because everyone think they are important to the students? How will you go about that?

Lee: Well, I have the privilege of having tradition on side. Music has been an important part since Kotewall’s time. And it's always been given, I wouldn't say priority, but a lot of respect at school, from management and also from the council. They are all music loving, our alumni are music loving. So, it helps me dearly. But yes, we still have to compete for students’ time. I think that's our biggest constraints, it is their time. And we just work with … actually sports is equally important for the students’ well-being. So, we are also understanding of the students’ needs, and that may change from time to time. Post-COVID is a different world than pre-COVID. And we have to adapt, and that is part of the musician’s job, I guess.

Chan: Right. I think many of the viewers, including myself, have been educated for many years ago. And at our times, our parents always say that don't get distracted, I mean it's just games, making sure you would be able to find a job when you graduate. Are the current parents still of that attitude or have they changed?

Lee: I think our parents, well, at least the parents we deal with, they are very open minded, they do want a diverse experience for our students. Every now and then, we will have a student who would quit and withdraw from the choir because of academic reasons. And we try to talk to them that, you know, this is kind of experience, like going to Auckland, that is the kind of experience you would never get from a tutorial center, you would never get from books. Some of them understand and some of them have their own priority. But mostly I would say parents are understanding.

Chan: Apollo, you are on a different path to Warren. I mean you have now become a sort of Chorus master, and also looking at the challenges you face with the students. How … earlier you said you have to maintain interest or encourage them to prepare for the international competitions. Sort of what type of challenges and how do you actually overcome all these challenges with, I mean they are all youngsters, they want to dating, they may doing the games on their phones, how do you maintain their interest and focus in preparing for music and maintain interest?

Wong: Well, first of all we always have to encourage them to stay interested in music. And it’s always a challenge to sustain their interest in music because learning music is something requires a lot of perseverance. And they do occasionally detour, can we say? Detour from the learning of the music. The most important thing is that we have to always ensure them that they do have the ability, and they can actually sing well, and they have to always recognize their own progress and Improvements. And they are encouraged to continue doing the training and all that musical learning, and language learning, and dramatic learning behind the music.

Chan: Do you have to do a lot of individual coaching to them to sort of making sure they stay focused at least for a certain time?

Wong: Occasionally, yes, we have to have … I will give them voice lessons or sometimes addiction lessons, even language lessons occasionally at school. So, all these combined together, after they have learnt all these individually and they put together, and they can feel that it comes out as a great musical experience. And they will keep doing it.

Chan: Right, okay. So, Warren, how do you encourage them to see music as not just an extra-curricular activity, where it used to be at our times?

Lee: Well, first of all, sometimes we call it co-curricular. And students who are involved in music, they already know that it is not … well, I am not looking down on swimming, but for swimming, you just go there once a week, and that’s it, you just go for hobby. But music, it really takes a lot of your own individual preparation time, be it in choir or orchestra. And luckily in our school, the students we come across, they really do love music and they see it as more than just an ECA. Their parents are equally understanding, they come all the way to Auckland, and I actually said that to the parents, I know even if we go down to South Pole, you’d come. So, they are really supportive and we are grateful for that.

Chan: Right. So, both of you are leaders in the music community in Hong Kong. What changes or innovation we’d like to see in the music education landscape to better support our youth development? You know our national 14th 5-year plan has made Hong Kong a sort of arts and culture place, does all these help? And how would you want to see that happen, Apollo?

Wong: I'd love to see more young people in the audience at all the performances, no matter symphonies or museums or ballet, everything. Younger audience is what we need. And more performance venues, I’d say.

Chan: Do we have enough performance venues, Warren?

Lee: There is never enough.

Chan: Never enough.

Lee: I am sure all the arts and music companies out there are looking for more, especially I think smaller concert halls for just beautiful classical music. But I know we are getting there with West Kowloon. I would also say performing venues aside, and also of course, more audience, because there is a lot of students learning a musical instrument or singing in choir. But that's doesn't necessary translate into audience and going to concerts and having a culture. And part of the reason, I think, is we are very competition and examination-oriented and driven. But Music is a performing art, it is not a competing art, it is not a sporting event. And that's what we like to do and spread this message to our parents.

Chan: Right. I am afraid we have to leave it there for now. And thank you, Warren and Apollo. It is indeed inspiring to see how music education can shape character, foster teamwork, and provide our youth with invaluable life skills. As Aristotle, the Greek philosopher, said, “Music has a power of forming the character.” Thank you for joining us and have a good evening!